- A section of scripture
- Questions about the scripture.
- Various mainstream views about the scripture (which may not be correct, or I may disagree with).
- Sometimes my opinion is added. It starts with "My 2 Cents"
- The blog authors will add information, opinions and responses (which will be clear by their name. For all the previous things they will usually be under the name, "Bruce").
Sunday, October 19, 2014
Matthew 3:13-17
Matthew 3:13-17 - John baptizes Jesus.
Things to check out:
- Why did Jesus get baptized.
- The Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus. Does that mean that the Holy Spirit wasn't in Jesus before that?
From http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/8273/why-was-jesus-baptised-by-john-the-baptist :
John used the Jewish concept of mikveh means - Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. It was used most commonly to convert Gentiles to Jews.
There are many views why Jesus was Baptized, some of the better views are; His coming as the Representative of a guilty race, or as the bearer of the sins of others, or of His surrendering Himself symbolically to death for man. However as Jesus came to ‘fulfill all righteousness’ it seems to best to say that He came to perform perfect obedience to Gods Law. This obedience not only included all the ceremonial, civil and moral laws given to Moses, but as Christ was not only God but man, He must also submit to the ministries of Prophets sent by God. Furthermore the level of consciousness that Jesus, as a man, had of His purpose and ministry seems to have taken a sudden increase after His submission. For it is hear that God declares from a voice from heaven and a visible token of His Spirit anointing Him for His ministry that he has the One whom God loved, that is the King Messiah, and also the suffering servant who He was well pleased with.
So His baptism was to fully comply with all Laws in order to have a righteousness that He could provide to sinners while the sins of the world were placed upon Him in return. This is why John says: The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (NIV John 1:29)
Jesus was presenting Himself as the Lamb in Baptism, to suffer all the sins of men punishable under the Laws of Moses. John was including the righteous Pharisees and sinful tax collectors as equally needing this baptism of repentance for sin. Jesus was the center upon which this baptism had meaning, for water does not cleanse.
Jesus is part of the trinity, so this is a meaningless question. The Holy Spirit descending is a sign to John and to others that He was the Messiah. (If He didn't have the Holy Spirit in Him, how was He able to teach at the temple at 12 years old?)
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-baptized.html gives the following reasons:
1. John was declaring Jesus the Messiah. 2. It showed Jesus identified with sinners - the sinners baptism. 3. It legitimized John's baptism. 4. It showed the nature of the trinity.
1. It was to identify the Lord as the Son of God at the beginning of his ministry. 2. It was a commencement token of the total dedication of Christ in carrying out Heaven’s plan. 3. It was a visual precursor to the Savior’s ultimate death, burial, and resurrection.
Personally, none of the articles above struck a chord with me. I still don't really know why Jesus was baptized, and have not seen an explanation yet that struck me as the reason.
My thought has been that it legitimized John's message. But let’s back up. Why was John baptizing anyway?
Baptism was typically used to bring Gentiles into Judiasm. But John seems to be using it for Jews. That doesn’t make much sense on the surface. Maybe a specific need here or there but John seems to be telling all Jews that they need to confess their sins. To a group of people who based their salvation on their bloodlines from Abraham to themselves, this was crazy talk. Of course, crazy talk fit John’s demeanor. He’s dressed like a weirdo and he’s not beyond telling the most righteous Jews that their fathers were snakes. I imagine many Jews went to the desert to see him just for the show. He’s offensive like a street preacher telling them they will be thrown into the fire. But he’s also easy enough to write off as a lunatic. I wonder that if he wasn’t so crazy looking whether they would have stoned him out of anger.
But the real message is that one’s salvation is not in based in your ancestry but in the new king who is in town. So make your paths straight. Repent.
Jesus affirms this message by being baptized. He says the Lord has come and repentance is the way of salvation. Being Jewish is not enough. A heart change is required to be in God’s kingdom. It’s not a matter of who your daddy was or whether you are an outcast. It’s whether you have confessed your sins and bear fruit in keeping with your repentance.
John is preaching a new message and Jesus is picking it up and making it a reality. Jesus uses John’s baptism to demonstrate this.
Excellent point Von. It explains that aspect very well. Like many other things, this is something that I feel has layers to it. I feel subconsciously that there's a layer missing- perhaps the main point.
Whew! I am finding several articles saying all sorts of different things - all of them unsatisfactory and contradictory. Will keep trying.
ReplyDeleteFrom http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/8273/why-was-jesus-baptised-by-john-the-baptist :
ReplyDeleteJohn used the Jewish concept of mikveh means - Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. It was used most commonly to convert Gentiles to Jews.
There are many views why Jesus was Baptized, some of the better views are; His coming as the Representative of a guilty race, or as the bearer of the sins of others, or of His surrendering Himself symbolically to death for man. However as Jesus came to ‘fulfill all righteousness’ it seems to best to say that He came to perform perfect obedience to Gods Law. This obedience not only included all the ceremonial, civil and moral laws given to Moses, but as Christ was not only God but man, He must also submit to the ministries of Prophets sent by God. Furthermore the level of consciousness that Jesus, as a man, had of His purpose and ministry seems to have taken a sudden increase after His submission. For it is hear that God declares from a voice from heaven and a visible token of His Spirit anointing Him for His ministry that he has the One whom God loved, that is the King Messiah, and also the suffering servant who He was well pleased with.
So His baptism was to fully comply with all Laws in order to have a righteousness that He could provide to sinners while the sins of the world were placed upon Him in return. This is why John says: The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (NIV John 1:29)
Jesus was presenting Himself as the Lamb in Baptism, to suffer all the sins of men punishable under the Laws of Moses. John was including the righteous Pharisees and sinful tax collectors as equally needing this baptism of repentance for sin. Jesus was the center upon which this baptism had meaning, for water does not cleanse.
Did Jesus not have the Holy Spirit before He was baptized?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.escaloncovenant.org/Was-Jesus-Indwelled-By-The-Holy-Spirit-At-His-Baptism says:
Jesus is part of the trinity, so this is a meaningless question. The Holy Spirit descending is a sign to John and to others that He was the Messiah. (If He didn't have the Holy Spirit in Him, how was He able to teach at the temple at 12 years old?)
I'll check out more articles tomorrow.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-baptized.html gives the following reasons:
ReplyDelete1. John was declaring Jesus the Messiah.
2. It showed Jesus identified with sinners - the sinners baptism.
3. It legitimized John's baptism.
4. It showed the nature of the trinity.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/584-why-was-jesus-baptized says:
ReplyDelete1. It was to identify the Lord as the Son of God at the beginning of his ministry.
2. It was a commencement token of the total dedication of Christ in carrying out Heaven’s plan.
3. It was a visual precursor to the Savior’s ultimate death, burial, and resurrection.
Personally, none of the articles above struck a chord with me. I still don't really know why Jesus was baptized, and have not seen an explanation yet that struck me as the reason.
ReplyDeleteMy thought has been that it legitimized John's message. But let’s back up. Why was John baptizing anyway?
ReplyDeleteBaptism was typically used to bring Gentiles into Judiasm. But John seems to be using it for Jews. That doesn’t make much sense on the surface. Maybe a specific need here or there but John seems to be telling all Jews that they need to confess their sins. To a group of people who based their salvation on their bloodlines from Abraham to themselves, this was crazy talk. Of course, crazy talk fit John’s demeanor. He’s dressed like a weirdo and he’s not beyond telling the most righteous Jews that their fathers were snakes. I imagine many Jews went to the desert to see him just for the show. He’s offensive like a street preacher telling them they will be thrown into the fire. But he’s also easy enough to write off as a lunatic. I wonder that if he wasn’t so crazy looking whether they would have stoned him out of anger.
But the real message is that one’s salvation is not in based in your ancestry but in the new king who is in town. So make your paths straight. Repent.
Jesus affirms this message by being baptized. He says the Lord has come and repentance is the way of salvation. Being Jewish is not enough. A heart change is required to be in God’s kingdom. It’s not a matter of who your daddy was or whether you are an outcast. It’s whether you have confessed your sins and bear fruit in keeping with your repentance.
John is preaching a new message and Jesus is picking it up and making it a reality. Jesus uses John’s baptism to demonstrate this.
Excellent point Von. It explains that aspect very well. Like many other things, this is something that I feel has layers to it. I feel subconsciously that there's a layer missing- perhaps the main point.
ReplyDelete